10.55- Whatever Happened To The International?

Wherein we finally talk about the Second International just so we can watch it die.

Direct Link: 10.55- Whatever Happened To The International?

Sponsor: Pre-Order Hero of Two Worlds!

Comments

[Per S]

The pronunciation of "stein" as "steen" is something that occurs in the postwar American anglosphere I belive.
If u can refrain from using it where its not approprate I would be greatful.

Love your work/Per

[Shane Doherty]

This is a question I've wondered a lot about since I really comprehended this aspect of WW1. Thanks for putting it in perspective!

I wonder if the surprise speed of the war helped put socialists on the backfoot. Remember that outside the inner circles of the Great Power leadership, the public perception after Sarejevo was that things were winding down - France focused on the Madame Caillaux Murder Trial, Britain on the Irish Home Rule Crisis - and then bam, sudden ultimatum. Would the fact that things spiraled out of control so rapidly help explain socialist inability to steel themselves to honour their pledges?

[AJ]

Mike

Thank you for your many years of hard work. Being able to experience history via the spoken word has been both a delight and so helpful in my own reflection/understanding. I am someone who would never have been introduced to these grand memories and experiences; that wind up shaping what it means to be a person, alive, today. From THOR to now. Had it not been for your work, my ignorance would have endured.

Best of luck with the book pre-orders!
I hope that all good cousins do their part in making it a success.

LOVE your work/AJ

[mateus]

fucking 2nd international traitors

[James]

What made the fear in the socialist party that made them support war credits?

[Harsh]

There was one vote against the war credits in the german parliament, so it technically wasn't unanimous. Not that the final result was any less shameful.

From wiki:
"The only member of parliament of any party to vote against war credits in the second session was Karl Liebknecht. In the third session on 20 March 1915, Otto Rühle joined him. Over the course of the war the number of SPD politicians opposed to the war steadily increased. Their resistance against the Burgfrieden politics led to the expulsion of Liebknecht, Rosa Luxemburg, Clara Zetkin and others from the SPD. These went on to found the Spartacist League, the Independent Social Democratic Party of Germany (USPD) and the Communist Party of Germany (KPD)."

I hope you'll be covering more of Rosa Luxemburg perhaps and the failed 1919 revolution when we come to it!

[Craig Johnson]

Thanks as always Mike --- thanks to this episode I called up my local bookshop and pre-ordered Hero of Two Worlds! A shout-out to Reader's Companion in Armidale, NSW Australia, on Anaiwan land in "New England" high country.

Cheers,
Craig

[Troy Gibb]

Just got around to pre-ordering Hero of Two Worlds from Folio Books in SF (https://www.foliosf.com/).

Can't wait to read it!

Troy

[Ron Sparks]

Alternative history is kind of pointless, but given what later happened in World War I, I can't help but wonder what might ultimately have happened if the socialists had taken a unified stand against war and nationalism from the start.

[Ian]

Just a tiny bit bummed you didn't mention Debs went to prison for upholding his socialist anti war beliefs! Hope it gets mentioned at some point. But I feel the international focus of this episode was probably the only opportunity. Good episode though!

[Matthew Erickson]

Hi Mike! Rosa Luxemburg was Jewish bit Polish z the Poles never considered Jews Polish making this an important distinction. Especially with antisemitism rising across the globe right now, making sure people know Jews aren't Polish as some claim is more important than ever. Thanks

[Grzegorz Wisniewski]

Roza Luksemburg was indeed of a Polish Jewish nationality. But while an important figure in socialist movement, she's also a little troublesome piece of history because she was made a (rather empty) symbol for post-ww2 pro-soviet polish propaganda - even as I recall she was strongly anti-stalinist in her views.

Unfortunately it is also true that with recent snatching the power by the right-wing and far-right elements Roza Luksemburg being a Polish Jew is unsuprisingly unpopular with official history/propaganda sources.